Bump stocks have been on the hit list for some time now. Not because they are intrinsically dangerous in the hands of hundreds of thousands of gun owners, but because one miscreant, a murderer, decided to use one in a horrific crime. Politicians and anti gunners, as usual, have decided to blame the implement and not the criminal. As a result, under the direction of President trump, the Department of Justice has reclassified bump stocks as machine guns. The ruling becomes official when it is placed on the Federal Register, likely this Friday, December 21, 2018. At that time, it will kick off a 90-day clock to either destroy or surrender your scapegoat bump stocks.
Previously, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) had classified bumpstocks as an accessory. Due to the recoil of the firearm, the trigger was depressed and reached reset. Therefore, it was not considered an automatic weapon or machine gun. However, President Trump called on the Justice Department to ban bump stocks. As a result, the Justice Department took a “fresh look” at the case law, technology, and the devices and their functionality “in light of modern developments.” Lo and behold, the Justice Department magically concluded that bump-fire stocks, “slide-fire” devices, and devices with certain similar characteristics all fall within the prohibition on machine guns by allowing a “shooter of a semiautomatic firearm to initiate a continuous firing cycle with a single pull of the trigger,” and therefore, they are illegal under federal law.
The question was posed, “How many bump fire-style devices are out there?” Since they were not previously regulated, no one actually knows. As one official said, “bump stocks aren’t widespread, but they are not uncommon. Isn’t there something about “in common usage” that might apply here?
Surrender or be Destroyed
“A current possessor may destroy the device or abandon it at the nearest ATF office, but no compensation will be provided for the device. Any method of destruction must render the device incapable of being readily restored to its intended function.”
President Trump said he would never go against the Second Amendment. Do you consider this an infringement against the Second Amendment? While bump-style stocks are not the most important thing on my wish list, any infringement is a step too far and a slippery slope in my opinion. I am sure many of you feel the same. However, before the Trump bashing gets out of control, think of the alternative had Trump not been elected—President Hillary Clinton. This is a loss in my opinion, but we are still way ahead with President Trump as far as the 2A fight goes.
This ban is not unexpected. In October, President Trump told the National Rifle Association that “bump stocks are gone.” A spokesperson for the NRA said in October 2017 that the ATF “should review bump-fire stocks to ensure they comply with federal law,” but made clear that the NRA opposed the broader gun-control legislation raised by some in Congress.
Pro Second Amendment groups are surely lining up to file suit to block the new bump stock ban. Which group or groups do you think have the best chance at overturning the DOJ’s ruling? Do you think bump stocks should be classified as machine guns? Share your answers in the comment section.
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There is an old saying, “You don’t slap a 600 lb. gorilla.”. And Bump Stops are the bitch slap of all bitch slaps to the 600 lb. gorilla of gun control fanatics. And before you go all crazy on me, I am a second amendment supporter and an NRA member. And only vote for pro second amendment politicians. But you don’t rub the noses of the gun haters in our second amendment by stretching that right to the extreme. The Western European powers rubbed the German’s nose in humiliating defeat with the World War 1 armistice and from that we all got World War 2. All they have to do is watch a U-tube video of some idiot spaying rounds out of a simi auto rifle like he’s John Dillinger with a tommygun, and they don’t see it as a waste of ammo. But as a sneaky way of creating a weapon that has been banded for decades, the fully automatic machine gun. And then you have some psychotic killer use one to commit a mass killing and you have just created that bitch slap. This can all be solved by making bumpstocks ownership meet the same requirements it takes to own a fully automatic firearm. This will lessen the chance that a psycho will get their hands on one but not prevent it. I hate to give an inch on gun control. But a tree that will not bend, will break in high winds.
Dale,
Your adage, which has been around some time, holds truth. However, it does NOT apply here.
Had our founders thought the same, there may be celebration of our Independence as a nation.
You along with every “sensible” person need to wake the phuq up. The verbiage from ATF states we must destroy the accessory or render it useless as a bump fire stock. Why? Are they afraid that we the people will have an equal match up for cover fire if there is a revolt?
After all, THAT was the purpose of the 2A: to ensure a free people that still hold ultimate power over their government.
I could disagree more. The lynch pin in many 2A supporters is that you can’t blame the inanimate object. It’s the person. By caving on Bump Stocks Trump has openly agreed with the left that by banning this inanimate object. Mind you, a piece of plastic, that this will somehow save lives. Then turn around in the same breath and state, but by banning the actual object that goes bang won’t somehow save lives. Trumps lack of adherence to any ideology shows through here. He’s single handedbky undermined one of our strongest arguments. (Outside the fact the Fed. Gov’t has absolutely no right to ban anything related to any firearm to begin with?
Of the twenty-seven words contained in our Second Amendment nowhere do I see any caveats allowing for the feral government, any government state or local the ability or responsibility to restrict my God given and constitutionally protected right of self preservation. There are no clauses allowing for background checks, waiting periods, psychological profiling, or the registration of any firearm to anyone! However, I do see plenty of elected officials who would just as soon try and TAKE our God given right by usurpative fiat while at the same time refusing to abide by their oaths of office. Guns have but two enemies, RUST and Politicians!!!
No one but God can dictate policy to me and my family and I will do whatever it takes to secure my liberty and the liberty of my fellow patriots. Stand in my way try and usurp my rights or otherwise enslave me, you should be prepared to back your actions up with your life as I am prepared to do likewise!!
There comes a time when you have to stand for the Constitution or die by legislation one usurpetive bill at a time.
When it comes to listening to fools who haven’t a fart’s chance in a tornado, to think I care about whether or not I am in compliance with some non-constitutional administrative ruling will be the least of my concerns, instead of listening to fools and traitors I exercise ALL my God Given Constitutional rights not caring what some, one dimensional regressive politically correct lieberal bureaucrat wants!!! Instead I will focus on center mass, maintaining fire discipline, and assessing immediate threat vectors!
Let me make one thing perfectly clear, yes I am a Christian, and yes I carry a gun. One might think I carry a gun because I don’t trust God. Well you would be wrong. I have complete faith in my Lord; it’s crazed lunatics and an oppressive government that believes it has the right to dictate what I can and cannot have, can and cannot think or say, can and cannot eat or drink etc., I have no trust in! ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛABE.
”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.”
Roger that Leatherneck and well said. Army here, I damned well stand with you, locked & loaded.
It is too late for me, Florida Governor Rick Scott took my 3 Bump Stocks away from me already. No compensation, just turn them in or destroy them or become a Felon. I voted for Scott for the Senate because Bill Nelson is worse, same with President Donald Trump. I don’t like what he did but the alternative Hillary Clinton would have cost me much much more.
anyone with a little practice can get the same result with any semi-auto rifle without a bump stock . What’s next ? your favorite deer hunting rifle . Past history shows where governments are concerned , give an inch and they’ll take a mile .
This “ruling” has nothing to do with a device that enables bump firing a semi auto firearm. Any semi auto rifle or handgun can be bumpfired without any extraneous device.
Hello?
1I don’t think we can give up onTrump. The alternative is to dangerous to the 2nd. Amendment. Do you think Bernie Sanders will do anything to stop gun confiscation? I don’t. Socialist don’t want you to own guns, forget about 30 round magazines, they will be the first things to go. Be careful what you vote for because not voting is the same as voting Democrat.
You can bump fire a gun without a bump stock with practice. In your theory anybody on YouTube or a gun range bumpfiring a semiautomatic rifle is slapping a 600 lb gorilla. Trump betrayed a lot of people who are one issue voters and that is because they believe in shall not be infringed and no matter how you dress it up there not going to turn out in 2020. See we dont want to bend or hear the word but when we talk about the second amendment. This sets a dangerous precedent for the next president or the current one now to say the same about 30 round magazine’s. We are tired of the NRA caving and I’ve givin them my hard earned money for over 30 years but they have seen my last dollar and I told them that and they didn’t seem to concerned just offered me a knife and a handbag.
I don’t think we can give up onTrump. The alternative is to dangerous to the 2nd. Amendment. Do you think Bernie Sanders will do anything to stop gun confiscation? I don’t. Socialist don’t want you to own guns, forget about 30 round magazines, they will be the first things to go. Be careful what you vote for because not voting is the same as voting Democrat.
Here’s the problem. Trump does not adhere to any particular ideology. Consider this scenario. Trump fails to get the money for the wall before this next session starts (still a high likelihood he won’t). The Dems take over the house in Jan. What if the democrats offer Trump, all the funding he wants for “the wall”, but, in exchange, all they ask is he get the votes for “universal background checks” or another “assault weapons ban”. How quickly does Trump cave on the 2nd amendment in exchange for fulfilling his “wall” campaign promise? You confident we have enough GOP senators who wouldn’t buckle on the Universal Background Check? I’m not! I’m terrified of this scenario.
Daryl we have to ride Gov Desantis’ butt and our state reps and make them retract that B.S.
ToolsforLiberty I agree with you, I supported Trump from the beginning but after supporting the Bump Stock ban and Red Flag laws I do not trust him anymore.
There is only our arms, training and experience to be trusted.
The Vegas murderer sprayed and prayed with the bump stock and by default managed to kill 50+ people in a crowd of thousands. With a bolt action deer rifle, a suppressor and a night vision scope he could have picked off more than 50 people before they even knew what was happening. Someone who wants to kill masses of people have plenty of helpless targets and plenty of options to accomplish it without using a bump stock. Trump is a dumb ass for making a knee jerk commandment that accomplished nothing but pissing off his waning supporters.
What part of shall not be infringed don’t people get. Give an inch and they will take a mile, which is the end game with this enemies to liberty and freedom.
I hope a sensible, truly pro-gun president is elected in 2020! The two faced chump in the White House now has flip-flopped on so many campaign pledges I doubt if he can remember what he promised who!
21I don’t think we can give up onTrump. The alternative is to dangerous to the 2nd. Amendment. Do you think Bernie Sanders will do anything to stop gun confiscation? I don’t. Socialist don’t want you to own guns, forget about 30 round magazines, they will be the first things to go. Be careful what you vote for because not voting is the same as voting Democrat.
Need to place a NFA tax stamp on this item. Fill out a form,
pay a $50.00 charge at your local class 3 firearms dealer to place a serial number on a bonded metal plate for tracking purposes. No different than serial numbers that are placed on plastic pistol frames. This is a piece of plastic and a spring and is not a weapon of any kind by itself. When your approval comes in the mail you may go and pick up your bump stock at the class 3 dealer. So what is next, banning belt loops on your bluejeans or banning bottles and rags or maybe quit renting large trucks to everybody and put Uhaul and all other that type of business out of business.
I see a clasd action lawsuit happening. You can’t ban something without compensation. There were if I recall over 500k bump stocks sold since approved by the ATF. That’s a lots of money spent! There needs to be compensation or grandfather laws.
Not only a violation of 2A but 5A as well. The deprival of property without action of Law.
I have yet to see a single ballistic test of even one bullet from a deceased or wounded victim matched to be a Firearm recovered from Mandalay Bay.
Really disappointed in Pres. Trump, folding on this issue, the least the Government could do is to compensate the owners of Bump Stocks, although only a piece of plastic they weren’t cheap. It sure rubs me wrong to have to melt $150.00.
If a bump stock is considered a machine gun, then obtaining a NFA stamp should make them legal to own.
The BATFE’s definition of a full automatic fire arm is one that can fire continuously with the “Single” pull of the trigger. A bump stock bounces the trigger away/against your finger via the recoil of the firearm when you maintain forward pressure on the firearm’s form arm and the stock tight against your shoulder. The trigger is released after each shot via the recoil moving the trigger away from your finger. Release the forward pressure on the firearm’s fore arm and the “Repeated” trigger pulling stops. The firearms firing mechanism is not altered, which would be a BATFE infraction of law, but the bump-stock alters the human body’s reaction to the recoil of the firearm.
I’m not a fan of the bump stock, however, the BATF has poorly worded their letter announcing the ban and will surely be sued. By definition, a machine gun fires multiple rounds with one pull of the trigger. The BATF now lists the bump stock as a machine gun and it actually causes the trigger to be operated repeatedly with one round discharged for each pull of the trigger. By definition, a semi-auto.
Who gives a s#!+ about a toy you can attach to a deadly device and anyone who has one most likely shouldn’t own a firearm to begin with. GUNS AREN’T TOYS. With that being said in response to Mr. Fred Brown. DJT knows this will lose when challenged in court. It’s a game of chess and a little pandering to the left plays in his favor. BIG PICTURE Fred!! A vote for anyone but DJT in 2020 is a vote for the left! Don’t lose the Forrest for the trees!
In my opinion who gives a shot about a toy you can attach to a deadly device and anyone who has one most likely shouldn’t own a firearm to begin with. GUNS AREN’T TOYS. With that being said in response to Mr. Fred and ANY waining supporters, DJT knows this will lose when challenged in court. It’s a game of chess and a little pandering to the left plays in his favor. BIG PICTURE Fred!! A vote for anyone but DJT in 2020 is a vote for the left! Don’t lose the Forrest for the trees. It’s ignorance like that that will lose us this country. No president in history has ever accomplished as much as he so come off your high horse and take the victories you can get!!
Overwhelming, law abiding citizens own bump stocks (Vegas murderer excepted). Yet at the end of the 90 day period, if you still possess your bump stock, the government will classify you as a criminal/felon. Yet, all these blowhards on Capital Hill, passed a Criminal Justice Reform Bill that allows CONVICTED FELONS to be released back in to our communities! Both sides (Dem & GOP) have lost their collective minds. Slippery slope? More like a slippery cliff.
If a bumpstock is a machine gun, how do I get it registered?
Although I am not enthused by this “BAN” …this means MORE than just BUMP STOCKS and the methods used by our Government… and I am NOT picking on Trump by any means… I point the blame at people who don’t even know the physics of said Bump Stocks…. It is all RECOIL FIRE. The same reaction can be had from BELT LOOPS…so now…ban BELT LOOPS??? WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT?????
Now, I have friends who DO own Bump stocks. This “law” will have made them CRIMINALS by their definition. Surrender, be destroyed or apply for a BATF permit ( more tax money in Government coffers… wink ….wink). So some have bought them LEGALLY and for prices ranging from hundreds to over a thousand dollars… Some have bought MORE than one. Now they are expected to destroy a legally bought item??? Hmmm sounds like Australia…orrrr…. maybe Germany a number of years ago.
I seem to have the impression that the NRA put NO REAL DOG in this fight… Other Gun Owner Orgs did try to repel it. So where is the power gone for the LAWFUL gun owners? Again, I don’t own a BUMP STOCK. I never wanted one…but then again…I don’t own a car capable of 200 mph…but own a Hyundai that gets me from point A to B. Don’t need much more. Oh I had my share of Muscle Cars in my past.. 442’s, Vettes, Chevelles… throw in a few Mopars too. All legal and still not banned for going over 70.
If the NRA did indeed dropped any effort in stopping this Camel nose under the tent flap…maybe the NRA should be rethought of. Just my thoughts…and ourselves as well… did we all express our disgust in this to any of those we have a Congresspeople? I did… and yet… here we are… first a snowflake and what down the road..AVALANCHE!!! The left loves this and dances with glee… Kind of funny for a segment of our society that allows abortions… for ANY reason. So now… we will see how many of our friends will turn in legally purchased items or…even destroy them. OR…maybe pay the what $250 to REGISTER them??? Interesting times we now live in… Bending isn’t enough…a full break is called for…I am over 70 and have learned early… I feel bad for my Grand Daughters becaus e they will grow up thinking all this GUANO is NORMAL. All IMHO
The Foot is (or has been) in the door as they say. Apathy is responsible because we “law abiding” gun owners are not radical as our Leftopathic counterparts. We play nice whale they walk all over us and shred our constitution and we say nothing!!!
Apathy (remaining silent) gives tacit approval to what those gun grabbing politicians do is acceptable .
At the time it was enacted the Second Amendment applied to all types of arms and was specifically intended to guarantee that private citizens could never be out-gunned by the government. Anyone who claims otherwise is either stupid or lying. Rights don’t change because technology advances!
For those of you that say we can’t go up against the government because they have tanks and fighter aircraft I need to remind you that the government does not have these things. The military has them. Big difference
When (not if) things go south, to think I care about whether or not I am in compliance with some non-constitutional administrative ruling will be the least of my concerns, I will be focused on center mass, maintaining fire discipline, and assessing immediate threat vectors! Let me make one thing perfectly clear, yes I am a Christian, and yes I carry a gun. One might think I carry a gun because I don’t trust God. Well you would be wrong. I have complete faith in my Lord; it’s an oppressive government that believes it has the right to dictate what I can and cannot have, can and cannot think or say, can and cannot eat or drink etc., I have no trust in! ”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.”
There comes a time when you have to stand for the Constitution or die by legislation one usurpative bill at a time.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛABE.
Allowing a piece of plastic/composite to be classified as a “gun” makes as much sense as calling am AR style incomplete lower a “gun”, neither of which can be fired by themselves. Calling a bump stock a “machine gun” is even stupider, and the ATF is assuming we are all that stupid and will turn in or destroy any possessed bump stocks, based on a REGULATION promulgated by a overbearing, ass kissing appointed and hired agency of the government.
Agree with Dale… The gun industry are their own worse enemy by allowing such crap to hit the market. Always pushing the envelope then bitching when something goes wrong.. The NRA which I am a member should have come out against these type of devices as soon as they were introduced to the market. Sorry I feel the same way about the hearing protection act. Buy a damn pair of muffs. Sooner of later some stupid ass will use them for illegal hunting, or in a mass killing.. Quit poking the ATF in the eye with a sharp stick…
Where do they get single trigger pull from? The motion of the bump stock pulls the trigger with each recoil.
When we bought our “Slide fire” stocks, there was a letter from the ATF included that stated why they were legal and NOT classified as machine guns. So we paid good money for the higher quality, all machined aluminum ones…$500 plus…
The basic problem here is that the Justice Department made this decision at the request of Trump. Congress nor the Fed. Courts were asked to provide an opinion. Trump did not ask the DOJ to review the device. He told them to rule them illegal. How many other gun ruling now will be made by this president or others? This is a bad precedence to be set. This also shows how unreliable Trump is on any promise.
Your point is well taken. I, too, feel the NRA sold us down the river on this one. And, the democrats already have a bill written to bring out in Jan that will outlaw 80% lowers. Much more in the bill will outlaw purchase of any “assault weapon” parts. No more stripped lowers, no more LPKs, no more BCGs. No more homemade ARs which are completely legal firearms including serial numbers and background checks. I think we’ll see soon enough if the NRA is all talk and no show!
just shows the g can have whatever they desire.
This country is in the process of imploding we have now officially started to go down even if trump gets elected again it’s only a temporary relief of the horrible people that the dumasses keep electing because they want government to take care of them that’s why young people like crazy socialist politicians ,we have raised a bunch of loosers that will suck the life out of the people that are willing to work and fight for there freedom to act like the spoiled brats that they are if there ever was a war that requires the draft to be used half the country will run to Canada,
“because one miscreant, a murderer, decided to use one in a horrific crime. Politicians and anti gunners, as usual, have decided to blame the implement and not the criminal.”
Anyone repeating this meme should be required to provide proof that these rifles actually killed someone. Not on chain of custody projectile collected in Vegas has been shown to have a link to even one of Paddocks rifles. We have been betrayed and snookered with this ban by Trump.
I agree. The Vegas shooter had bipods on the guns that had bump fire stocks . Can’t easily do that, screws with the balance needed to keep it running.
What else-binary triggers? Then what-all semi autos?
Let me explain how our government really works, as it is central to an understanding of this decision. After the President signs a bill into law, neither the House nor the Senate – those who developed the legislation and negotiated a common bill to be voted upon by both houses – have any visibility into its implementation. It is left to the Executive Branch agency to interpret the new law and develop the regulations and policies to implement it. This is how our government has always worked. There is nothing new here.
In this particular case, decades after the law was passed the market produced a product that sidestepped the law. It was the mission and duty of the implementing agency to recognize that bump stocks modify legal firearms in a way that they function as a firearm that is proscribed by existing law and modify its implementation to bring that product under the scope of the law. Why the BATFE didn’t do that years before the Law Vegas mass shooting is a real puzzle, but they were bound to do it afterwards.
This is normal. There is absolutely nothing new here. You can wring your hands and moan all you like about this, but this is how your government has been functioning for many decades before your birth and you never groused about it before.
In the legal field there is a truism that “bad facts make bad law”. These facts are as bad as it gets. Bump stock mfgs tell BATF that the devices are handicapped shooter aids and then run around promoting them as devices to circumvent full-auto regs. Then comes Vegas. The devices are junk with no legitimate purpose. NRA is right to not waste political capital and legal funds on this. No slippery-slope here.
Give an inch, they’ll take a mile. Anyone not believing that is living in fantasyland.
YEP. I got rid of all my guns and gun related items along with plastic and coal and gas and diesel and aerosol cans and my car and alcoholic and cigarettes. I GUESS I CAN HAVE POT NOW, but I don’t smoke it . I am going to live in the woods wrap in leaves till the Government tells me what I should do next.
CHRIST ON A CRACKER!!!!! Come on people, get honest here! We all knew when we bought these things (Yes, the sacred Bump Stock) we were side stepping the ATF ban on auto weapons (and yes, I’m old enough to remember its’ original name). So quit your whining, stash your bump stocks until TSHTF. If it was just a toy, outgrow it and put it away. If it is a tool, use it when it’s needed. Save your energy for useful causes, like reformed (and realistic) surpressor regulations!
CHEESE AND CRACKERS! Come on people, let’s get real! We all knew when we bought these things (Yes, the sacred BUMP STOCK) that we were side stepping the ATFs’ (Yes, I’m old enough to remember it’s proper name!) ban on full auto weapons. So, if was just a toy, the batteries are dead, throw it out! If it is a tool, stash it until TSHTF. Quit your whining and put your effort into realistic goals, like reasonable regulations for surpressers, and safeguarding that firearms will always be available to law abiding citizens to prevent REAL threats to our liberty.
I own an RPK with the most worn out trigger that breaks at 1.5 pounds, when I use the bipod I can bump fire off my shoulder. Does this make my finger an unregistered MG? I think not. The definition I read on the ATF website is complete nonsense. https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/bump-stocks
“devices that allow a semiautomatic firearm to shoot more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger by harnessing the recoil energy of the semiautomatic firearm to which it is affixed so that the trigger resets and continues firing without additional physical manipulation of the trigger by the shooter.”
This could apply to your shoulder or a belt loop, any number of tricks I have seen people use to bump fire. This wording is VERY dangerous in that the single fact is that is does not meet the definition of what a machine gun IS.
Congress makes law not DOJ. The firearm act is law passed by Congress which defines which firearm fits in which category, and it still usurps the Constitution.